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 | Angels, pinheads and inquisitions |
I'm a bit tired of words today, so I thought I'd try an equation. It's about light and heat.
eW= ty x L /k
Where: eW = energy available (in watts)
ty = kilocalories spent in angry typing
k = opportunities wasted to do something useful in real life
L = length of the Super Star Destroyer x by systolic pressure
I substituted a few numbers in that, and boy, there was a lot of wasted heat and not much light generated. I thought about getting a heat exchanger fitted, but then I tried something different.
sb = eW x r /ty
Where: sb = social benefit to real people
eW = energy available
ty = kilocalories spent typing angry responses
r = real issues requiring action
You can see that if you reduce ty, then sb increases.
There are thousands of people in the world who would love to have no greater source of unhappiness in their lives than arguments about SSDs, GAR strengths and whether Han fired first - because they're being blown up by IEDs, or bombed, or starved, or being driven out of their homes by disasters and wars and any number of bad, real things. If the most upsetting thing that happened to them in their lives was arguing about Mara Jade's hair, they'd rejoice.
Passion about fiction is great when it's fun and lighthearted, or when it provides respite or sheds light on real issues. But save your anger about it - on both sides of the argument - and channel it into improving real lives. Visit a vets' home. Send our troops books. If the military isn't your bag, then raise money for famine relief or help an animal shelter. But whatever you do, remember what's real and get het up about that.
Last time people started fighting about how many angels could dance on a pinhead, folks got burned at the stake by the Inquisition. Those really weren't the good old days, believe me.
Or as Niner might say; save the fight for the enemy.
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http://blogs.starwars.com/karentraviss/32 |
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: Oct 06, 2005 7:19 AM
arguing about Mara Jade's hair
You've just given an uncomfortable flashback, and you're right - there are things in this world more important to have flashbacks about.
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RyanKaufman
Look, sir! Zombies!
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date Posted: Oct 06, 2005 9:48 AM
And if you must argue about SW (not recommended) then what about the truly meaty topics:
Is it wrong to do something harmful to help someone you love?
Does an unelected elite have the right to rule the common majority?
How can we find common ground with people who are "alien" to us?
What is the value of mentors, and should we question their own moral quality, or can we learn from their teachings alone?
Does old age bring wisdom?
What does attachment really mean and how does it affect our lives, our happiness, and our spiritual well-being?
I can't imagine anyone will actually take me up on this, as it involves soul-searching and uncomfortable questions. And maybe that's why it's easier to debate the length of a Star Destroyer.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: Oct 06, 2005 10:48 AM
More to the point; did my equations balance? You know what my maths is like...
In some cases I noted more letters on one side of the equals than the other side. I...don't know what that means. And therefore it shouldst be feared and mocked, for it is witchery.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: Oct 06, 2005 10:57 AM
A couple more important questions that were central themes:
Can fear for your loved ones become a quest for control?
Is it possible to love something or someone so much, so selfishly, that you destroy what ro who you love?
How do good and innocent people become evil?
Is morality merely a point of view?
Does advanced technology always mean social progress?
Does one person have the ability to change everything?
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adarjapheth
The Troubles and Travails of the Fan that is -- Me.
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date Posted: Oct 06, 2005 2:45 PM
[gigantic Wookiee cheer]
That's for amusingly illuminating the idiocy of the depths to which this whole thing has gone... vor'e!
Looking at those questions above makes me sigh in delight though, since those are the issues that I do think about with Star Wars, and a lot of the reason that when I was soul-searching in my teens, I latched on to Star Wars real quick as a good-moral fable.
I've certainly never sat and obsessed over how many turbolaser emplacements along the Death Star trench...
...How to easily divide the 5 years of the Yuuzhan Vong War between the 4 hardcovers, sure, but that's a whole other bag of poodoo. 
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Karen Traviss
"Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them...noble Three Million!"
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date Posted: Oct 06, 2005 3:05 PM
It's the most powerful thing about it. I would never have even looked at cloning in my own SF series. Done too often, too fraught with hard SF pitfalls. When I had to look at it for Hard Contact, without all the trappings of hard SF, I was made to look at the emotional and ethical side and - those who know me know this is true - it affected me so deeply that I changed a lifelong view over a heavyweight moral issue that I won't name here. I would never have ventured there in my own series, because the logic of it was a safety net. I had nowhere to run from it in SW. Changed me and my writing.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: Oct 06, 2005 3:06 PM
One other important question, a final question seemingly posed by George himself:
What is more important - Loyalty to the State, Loyalty to the Regime, or Loyalty to the Ideals on which the State was founded?
What happens when these are in conflict with each other? What is the right thing to do?
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: Oct 06, 2005 5:30 PM
Now that's a meaty area.
On my wishlist, and I'm sure someone somewhere out there is working on this, is a bit of fiction that explores the psyche of the clone commanders as they had to carry this out. It becomes increasingly clear to me that it may have been a source of great distress and internal conflict.
Actually, I'd like to write one myself :0) But that's just for my own consumption :0) I of course would love to see something from you on it. It's something I'm going to touch on soon in my "Months of Revenge" review...
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: Oct 06, 2005 5:58 PM
I'll be honest, and I hope this offends no one, but there is a great deal in EU that has just not been my taste. Not that it's not good material, mind you, it's just not my can o' beer. But the Clone Wars have really helped me to find a series of books I am enjoying. I do hope that it goes well beyond Triple Zero as far as your work is concerned. It seems that the stories from timelines inside the saga have been more rewarding for me. After the saga, there have been great examples of new media, but then it just sort of went a direction I couldn't follow. I am hoping that going backwards in the timeline will be more rewarding for my tastes that some things going forward from ROTJ.
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Darth Talas
"Chewie, Get Me A Hydrospanner!"
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 12:01 AM
I can't imagine anyone will actually take me up on this, as it involves soul-searching and uncomfortable questions. And maybe that's why it's easier to debate the length of a Star Destroyer.
I see...so that aspect of fandom that enjoys Star Wars by debating lengths of Star Destroyers are shallow and fear introspection. I'm so glad flaming is frowned upon here!
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Karen Traviss
"Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them...noble Three Million!"
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 1:16 AM
Okay, friends, enough. On both sides of the debate.
I've had to disable comments for the time being on my LJ blog because this row has migrated over there. I really don't want to have to do that here as well.
I meant exactly what I said in this post. This is not a topic worth dying in a ditch about.
Endex, endex, endex.
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ywingempress
Shroud of the Dark Side
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 2:44 PM
Sorry to jump in here, but I think you missed Karen's point.
You said: However, I didn't get all worked up.
Karen talks about "angry typing" and "angry responses". So how does that apply to you, exactly? It sounds to me like you have a healthy view about fandom - a displacement activity. Discussion is all fine and good when it's fun, civil, and not personal. Differences of opinion are perfectly fine as well. But when it turns to anger - on both sides - that's when it's counterproductive.
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General Tarfful
The Kachirho Daily Journal
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 2:45 PM
I think that a very, very important distinction to make here is that attention to detail is one thing. Getting angry about it is another. Let's look at Karen's exact words.
"Passion about fiction is great when it's fun and lighthearted, or when it provides respite or sheds light on real issues. But save your anger about it - on both sides of the argument - and channel it into improving real lives."
Passion about fiction is great when it's fun and lighthearted.
But save your anger about it.
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General Tarfful
The Kachirho Daily Journal
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 2:59 PM
Looks like ywingempress and I are "on the same wavelength," as the saying goes... her comment hadn't gone up yet when I submitted mine, or else I needn't have said anything.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 3:10 PM
Alright - this ends here and now. If someone makes a general concept about a TOPIC, or a CONCEPT, fine. But Karen Traviss is not attacking PEOPLE, she is commenting on a concept. One person has already been banned by an admin over this. Folks need to reel it in, and fast.
Because someone says something about a generality does NOT mean they are talking about YOU in particular. However, it's so easy to bring the fight back not to the generality, but to the person when it comes to us fans. George might say "I don't like milk". Does that mean that every milk producer should come to his doorstep and say "I think you're insulting me, and everyone I know." No. It's an opinion.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 3:10 PM
Admins are watching for this, and so am I. You're going to see an ugly e-rampage of moosery and locked accounts if I see any more in blogspace. Go to Blog Feedback if you want to comment like this about other people - be they VIP or no. Don't test me on this.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 3:23 PM
Two more folks have been banned, and comments deleted, for angry attacks on a poster. And this is no offense and not meant to belittle Karen's work, but it matters not one wit in this case that she is a VIP. You folks are breaking rules, you are attacking people and their livelyhoods, and we won't stand for it any further. I'd dare just one more person to get up in a poster's face like that, but there is no reason for dares here. Do it, and you're gone. I'm cleaning house.
Learn the subtlties of discussing concepts, not people. Otherwise, you're in the path of a motivated and exceedingly single-minded moose.
DM out
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 4:31 PM
Also, on behalf of fans not so eager to be so confrontational, and more interested in having real-time access to the thoughts of VIP authors and game developers, please accept our apology, Karen.
If I were the common fan out there who enjoys seeing this kind of access to the makers of EU and other LFL licensed folks, I'd be a little pissed about now. We get an unprecedented chance to talk to people that help shape Star Wars, and we try to drive them off the site with personal attacks.
As Obi-Wan would say, "Good Job." or not.
DM out
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Karen Traviss
"Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them...noble Three Million!"
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 7:35 PM
Gosh...I went out tonight for the first time in six months and I come back to this.
I've seen this happen to colleagues and I wondered how long it would be before it happened to me. I suspect it goes with the territory. What saddens me is that folks don't seem to read the words on the screen, nor get the historical reference..
I won't be driven off these boards, believe me. Flaming merely makes me more determined to stay. I want to talk to people who enjoy Star Wars as much as I do.
Incidentally, one of my friends serving in Iraq also mailed me tonight, to tell me he'd lost two of his men. He was very distressed. So I can't get that worked up about personal insults.
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≈Suzanne≈
Not many Bothans died to bring us this Blog...
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 9:02 PM
I'm so sorry to hear about your friend's loss, Karen. It really does serve to put this all into perspective.
Whilst there are many issues in Star Wars that are interesting to debate, and there can be some fun in nitpicking, none of this is worth getting angry or upset about.
I'm glad to hear you won't be driven away, Karen.
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Tresk Im'nel
Beyond the Outer Rim
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 9:18 PM
My condolences on the loss of the two men in your friend's unit, Karen.  RIP
Whilst there are many issues in Star Wars that are interesting to debate, and there can be some fun in nitpicking, none of this is worth getting angry or upset about.
I'm glad to hear you won't be driven away, Karen.
Agreed on both points. I'm a definite "details person" for SW and other SF fandoms and I was very happy to see the scaling errors on the Executor and AT-AT get corrected last year. And I hope they'll sort out the scaling problems with the A-wing soon... But for all that I'd rather not get into major arguments over anything in Star Wars.
And it is good to have an author who's willing to post on the boards, I hope you stay.
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Tresk Im'nel
Beyond the Outer Rim
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date Posted: Oct 07, 2005 10:03 PM
Does an unelected elite have the right to rule the common majority?
Actually, that very topic came up in a discussion I was having with a friend recently where I pointed out that the Star Kingdom of Manticore in David Weber's Honor Harrington novels, though unquestionably a monarchy, is far more democratic than the Galactic Republic. 
I also remember discussing the ethics (or lack thereof) of using cloned troops with no choice in their fate back in the RC:HC thread...
So interest in the broad ethical, moral and political issues of Star Wars can certainly co-exist with an interest in the "vehicles and vessels" side of things...
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Karen Traviss
"Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them...noble Three Million!"
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date Posted: Oct 08, 2005 3:02 AM
Now I'll try again without the markup error!
And it is good to have an author who's willing to post on the boards.
Thanks. Ironically, I do it because I really enjoy discussing the detail! Would I have been crazy enough to build a whole Mandalorian language if I didn't? You can write books without doing that, believe me, and get a lot more sleep and leisure time. But I like to take things as far as I possibly can, which is why I write for 16 hours a day, seven days a week..
And, equally ironically given what he's been subjected to, Ryan Kaufman is incredibly detail-conscious. Let's not forget that Ryan has been treated pretty badly too. I hate seeing my mates attacked.
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Karen Traviss
"Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them...noble Three Million!"
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date Posted: Oct 08, 2005 3:07 AM
the broad ethical, moral and political issues of Star Wars
This is a true conversation. March 2004; K. Traviss talking with LucasArts continuity manager R. Kaufman.
"So...run that by me one more time, Ryan...the Jedi use cloned soldiers?"
"Yep."
"And these are the good guys?"
"'Tis true."
"Okay, I'm in. Let me at 'em."
Moral relativism hooked me on Star Wars.
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Tresk Im'nel
Beyond the Outer Rim
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date Posted: Oct 08, 2005 5:08 AM
Thanks. Ironically, I do it because I really enjoy discussing the detail! Would I have been crazy enough to build a whole Mandalorian language if I didn't?[...]
Any time. Yeah, I was thinking it was ironic given that I've always considered you one of the best EU authors for working to keep the details believable.
Let's not forget that Ryan has been treated pretty badly too. I hate seeing my mates attacked.
Understood, and I'm sorry if my reply to his comment seemed like a sideswipe. I was perhaps reacting more defensively than I needed to, I was just trying to make the point that the two sides of the equation aren't mutually exclusive, necessarily.
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Tresk Im'nel
Beyond the Outer Rim
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date Posted: Oct 08, 2005 5:14 AM
"So...run that by me one more time, Ryan...the Jedi use cloned soldiers?"
"Yep."
"And these are the good guys?"
"'Tis true."
"Okay, I'm in. Let me at 'em."
Moral relativism hooked me on Star Wars
LOL! That is one of the fascinating things, for a series about good and evil, there sure is a lot of grey. Although in that instance I think it's significant that Palpatine ordered the clones, I suspect he relished the thought of dragging the Jedi away from the light on their way down. Of course, that does leave the issue that the Jedi accepted the clone troops...
And my remark about the SKM being more democratic? I stand by it completely.
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Karen Traviss
"Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them...noble Three Million!"
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date Posted: Oct 08, 2005 5:53 AM
I've never read the Weber books, but then I don't read fiction anyway. I've seen the spiffy uniforms at cons, though!
I didn't think you were having a go at Ryan. I mentioned him because while I'm a veteran journalist who can slug it out with anyone and who's well used to being threatened, spat on and having doors slammed in my face, Ryan is a nice guy who hasn't been exposed to this level of venom before and I'm mad as hell that he's been put through the mill - and in some cases blamed for corrupting me.
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Tresk Im'nel
Beyond the Outer Rim
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date Posted: Oct 09, 2005 3:11 AM
I've never read the Weber books, but then I don't read fiction anyway. I've seen the spiffy uniforms at cons, though!
Ah, yes, I do recall that you don't read much fiction. Understandable given that you're so busy writing it.
Neat! I'm glad to hear I'm not the only Honorverse fan so far-gone as to actually consider going to the trouble of making an RMN uniform. (I'm actually nowhere near finishing, I need to get to a surplus store to find an old USMC dress tunic and some suitable trousers and then order a Naval Officers' Association white beret. So far all I've got are the tunic buttons and some smaller buttons that will suffice for Captain (Senior Grade) collar tabs. )
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Tresk Im'nel
Beyond the Outer Rim
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date Posted: Oct 09, 2005 3:13 AM
I didn't think you were having a go at Ryan. I mentioned him because while I'm a veteran journalist who can slug it out with anyone and who's well used to being threatened, spat on and having doors slammed in my face, Ryan is a nice guy who hasn't been exposed to this level of venom before and I'm mad as hell that he's been put through the mill - and in some cases blamed for corrupting me.
Thanks. And I hope he sticks around too. I can only speak for myself, but I don't bite.
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Tresk Im'nel
Beyond the Outer Rim
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date Posted: Oct 09, 2005 3:40 AM
Making them? I've been at cons where a booth was selling them! Badges and everything.
*eyes bug out*
Really!? Whoa, I've got to start going to these things. 
As long as I can get a shoulder flash for HMS Hexapuma.
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Tresk Im'nel
Beyond the Outer Rim
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date Posted: Oct 09, 2005 4:11 AM
LOL, no worries, but thanks. But that is my favourite RMN starship name, mainly on account of the namesake. For some reason a six-legged cougarlike creature with a nasty disposition has a certain appeal.
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