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10/19/02

I was originally not going to post this, but DarkStar has demonstrated that he deserves no such courtesy.

Sent to: <Editor@skayhan.net>;

Those were e-mails written with the reasonable expectation of privacy . . . you gave no fair warning that e-mails might be posted, nor did you ask permission to do so. You will at least remove Sean Robertson's name and site address from the page. His private message to me is not something I wanted published for all to see. If that is what I had wanted, I'd have quoted it and published it myself. I shared it since I had a reasonable expectation of privacy.

If you wanted to be proper, you would also remove the rest of our conversation.

DSG2k

I'll get right on that.

By the way, you did not quote Sean Robertson. You only made a vague reference to something he may or may not have said. You can't even read your own writing correctly, you dolt.

9/14/02: A brief conversation with DarkStar

I held off on posting this until the debate was over for all intents and purposes.

Sent to: <Editor@skayhan.net>; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 00:08:22 -0500

Hello,

This is DarkStar. As you may have read at ASVS (as I just discovered when I was looking for your e-mail address), Wong and I may be debating soon, provided he doesn't back down again.

Would it be possible for you to post the vidcap of the destruction scenes of the Liberty and the other Rebel ship from ROTJ? I still have Rings.mpg (and still, you get mad props and numerous cool points as a result), but I have not been able to locate or download a vidcap of that in particular, or ROTJ en masse, with similar high quality.

Thank you very much,
DS

I decided, for reasons that escape me, to offer some advice to DarkStar in my reponse.......here's my "words of wisdom" and DarkStar's answer

Sent to: <editor@skayhan.net>; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 16:11:02 -0500

On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Philip Skayhan <editor@skayhan.net> wrote:
I can have that up by Wednesday night. I'll make an announcement when it is uploaded.

Well, though it seems there is to be no debate, I would definitely appreciate having access to that anyway, but there's no rush or anything.
And, again, my highest honors and most profound thanks.

You should be aware that Mike Wong will have higher res stills due to the equipment he uses, in particular he has a much better laserdisc player than I.

Given that I have no vidcap technology at all, not to mention that I'm relegated to VHS or .avi/.mpeg on CD, anything would be a vast
improvement. :-)

As to the debate itself, why worry about whether or not flames may be shot back and forth? You post regularly on ASVS so I don't see how you might be offended by anything that Mike might say. Moreover, there is no law that says you need to flame back.

Oh, I'm quite aware of that . . . as you can probably tell, my skin is rather thick in regards to flames, and I can be just as obnoxious as Mike
when the mood strikes me.

The point of the thing was not to have some sort of BS escape clause. The purpose was to have a good old fashioned battle of wits. I don't care for which side can insult or slander the other the most. I wanted a debate of the evidence, the reason, the facts, the logic . . . not who had the
biggest ego or the most expansive repertoire of curses.

Did I expect him to break that? Hell yes. Was that going to be cause to end the debate? Hell no. Wong keeps whining about how Gothmog ran after Wong's short, multi-curse e-mail to him. I am not Gothmog, however. I was going to point out the fact that he had conceded, but 'graciously' allow him to continue.

DG_Cal_Wright asked me on the SD.Net "DarkStar Poll" thread why I made that request, saying something to the effect of "What, is it to lend
weight to your side?"

I said: "YES!!! With the evidence and facts as the primary focus (and not stupid flaming and Wong Way BS) the evidence, facts, arguments, and logic would have to take center stage, and could not be derailed."

I always saw these debates as a two level game. Primarily there is the technical points that are made but there is also the entertainment value to be considered. Only one of these truly matters but the other helps to keep the audience interested (and would give me material to finally update ASVS-HN).

That's just it. These discussions, for me, aren't about audience interest, personalities, egos, et cetera. Oh, I can't deny that Eframepilot's "Darkstar, I salute you!" on SD.Net didn't give me a little rush. However, that isn't the point. I engage in these things to see, for myself, how my arguments hold up to a trial by fire. Sure, it often turns into a trial by flame, but by taking the arguments and throwing them right into the den of wolves, I see if they stand or fall.

Admittedly, this might not be the best way. I used to take part in one of those old "e-group" philosophy forums . . . I discovered, after awhile,
that I was in the midst of creationist communist hippies (I shit you not). The war was on, and I was quite the robot about arguments <empasis mine>. There weren't many of us, but we were at something like 3000 messages per month. I killed the group. Didn't mean to, but they all bugged out one by one. Even now, three years later, it's just an ad-bot forum that's been acquired by Yahoo! Groups.

If you decide to flame back, be witty and think the insult through so you may anticipate how it might be responded to. Never play the victim (ie: the warsie conspiricy is out to get you) and don't shy away from falling on your own sword (pointing out the doubts you may have about your own theories).

I'm usually pretty good about pointing out the "missing links" in my own theories. I consider that to be a mark of an honest debater.

If anything, you can use this opportunity to gain the respect of your peers. <end sermon>

Actually, Mike could've used it to gain the respect of his. Take, for instance, Bernd Schneider of http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ , and his
"Apples and Oranges" message which he allowed me to repost here: http://ocean.otr.usm.edu/~randers2/STSWsdnet.html

Or, take Sean Robertson of http://www.b5tech.com/ , who participated in SD.Net's forums a bit, and actually PMed me expressing his
less-than-stellar opinion of the behavior of Wong and Poe in relation to what he referred to as "some very cogent arguments" from me, or words to that effect.

(Alas, now that I'm banned, I can't access anything there at all (at least, not directly ;-) ), so don't quote me on anything.)

Bottom line: do it. What have you to lose really?

The absolute worst that could happen in a rational discussion is that he could show up any flaws or gaps in my theory. The worst that could happen in a Wong Way debate is that he could smokescreen his way through, and very forcefully and convincingly express _his opinion_ that there are flaws and gaps, while never pointing any out. Meanwhile, he's poisoned the well to such an extent that no one will hear a word I say, and any reader who has a limited bullshit-filter will end up believing that my theory is wrong, and that I'm some sort of idiot.

I have much more to lose if he and I debated the Wong Way, and he has everything to gain. His refusal to engage in a clean debate also shows
that he recognizes this fact, and feels the same way, but vice versa.

DSG2k

There was no reason to respond to this as I believed the debate itself would show the truth of the matter. It is interesting to see how he describes his "war" with the creationist communist hippies. He says he was a robot about the argument but makes no mention as to the quality of his stance. It make me believes that he only seeks to wear his opponent down.  This thought is borne out if you've suffered though his posts against Mike Wong.

7/10/02

Hey Phil, the One Nation Under [Censored] thread has over 1,000 posts. Think it qualifies for the famous threads list?
Rob Dalton

I'm planning to put it up a little while after it dies....if it ever dies that is.

7/08/02

From: A.S. Savimbi (Also got the same email from a Pedro Savimbi)

This letter may come to you as a surprise due to the fact that we have not yet met. The message could be strange (it is) but real if you pay some attention to it. I could have notified you about it at least for the sake of your integrity (you really don't know me, do you?). Please accept my sincere apologies. In bringing this message of goodwill to you, I have to say that I have no intentions of causing you any pains. (My dentist says the same thing. Unfortunately, I'm best friends with one of his sons and room with the other. So he kinda turns into Zell when he's "curious" about what his boys are up to)

I am Mr. A.S. (Pedro) Savimbi, son of the late rebel leader Jonas Savimbi of Angola who was killed on the 22nd of February 2002 . I managed to get your contact details through the internet myself (Wow, you're quite the detective). Time is of the importance and I was desperately looking for a person to assist me in this confidential business. (If it's truly come down to you needing my help, better just give up now)

My late father, Jonas Savimbi, was able to deposit a large sum of money in different banks in Europe. My father is presently Death (--insert your Grim Reaper joke here--) and the movements of his family members (including me) is restricted (Have you tried Metamucil?). We are forbidden to either travel abroad or out of our localities. Presently our movements are monitored (No privacy even in the bathroom? That's just plain mean). Right now there is a rush for all my Father's wealth but home and Abroad by the Government who are claiming that most of the wealth was got by Arms smuggling and therefore illegal and by my father's extended family and relations. (Did he work for Enron?)

You can know more about my father by checking his profile at URL below:   www.kwacha.com/edoc2.htm (or better yet, get to know more about this at: www.scamorama.com)

His wealth has been estimated to be $500 million to over $1 billion and being close to my father I happen to be in possession of documents and information of some of the wealth approximate of $250 million and only my trusted mother knows that I (and Pedro) have this information. (You have documents? Well then, I guess it wasn't Enron)

Presently, the US$300,000,000.00 (Three Hundred Million Dollars) (yeah, spell it out for me baby!) cash my father transferred to Europe before his death is deposited with some security firms Europe. Before you can get access to it I have to give you the password  I am  therefore soliciting your help to travel to Europe to receive this money and transfer into your account before my government get wind of this fund .You know my father was a rebel leader in Angola before his death (Is the job still open? I'm looking to change careers but I definately will require at least three weeks paid vacation, a comprehensive retirement plan, and full dental and medical coverage). Because it will be difficult for the Angolan government to trace my father's money to an individual's account (because banks don't have a habit of keeping pesky transfer records of huge monetary amounts), especially when such an individual has no relationship (Hey now! no need to get personal and nasty). I decided to keep that money for my family use. At present the money is kept with some Security Companies in Europe. (Nice planning ahead Dad: "Son, I have gobs of cash but if I die, you and the family are completely screwed. So there!")

I am currently and temporarly (now I feel like I'm watching Star Trek) living in Angola with my family for my refugee status. I intend to communication with you as regards this transaction on a satellite phone (can you pick up a pre-paid calling card for that at the 7-11?) to avoid intervention by anybody (Cripes, why not just tell me to fly to Monte Carlo and beware of the huge guy with the metal teeth? You're laying the cloak-n-dagger stuff   on pretty thick). Moreover, the political climate in Angola at the moment being so sensitive and unstable.With this password and information and I will send you a power of attorney to the security firm, When you are ready I will give you the information needed before you can get access to the fund you will then proceed to Europe where the US$300,000,000.00 will be given to you as payment. (This email will self-destruct in five seconds)

PLEASE  YOUR CONFIDENTIALITY IN THIS TRANSACTION IS HIGHLY REQUIRED.
(I promise I won't tell a soul)

Yours sincerely,
A.S. (Pedro) Savimbi.
ppp_2002@rediffmail.com (63.109.249.162)

Well readers, it seems the "Savimbi" family is in quite the pickle. Let's show them our support!
Raven, while I really appreciate the thought, that's not what I meant; and Chuck......don't even think about it.

Here was my response:

I am saddened to hear of the loss of your father and of the trouble you are having with your movements. I may be able to help unplug these obstructions. Please let me know if my services may be of use to you.
Sincerly,
Phil McKracken

PS: My apologies for not replying sooner as I was away at Endor, which is quite a distance from my home, working on a government contract for my company KDY. Perhaps you've heard of the job we did on Alderaan?

5/18/02

I thought that you didn't have the correct version of Jimothy's first post, but apparently I hadn't decided what I was going to do with him at that time. There are definetly better Jimothy posts than that one though.

Graeme Dice

True, so far this thread is my favorite. Hmm, an ASVS foreshadowing of AotC?

3/08/02

There's a frightening lack of me. I assume this is due to professional jealousy. Fix the problem or I may have to start legal actions.
Love,
C.S.Strowbridge

You should check out the newly added links page.

3/07/02

An email from Brian Young

12/10/01

Just wanted to respond to your news item that included myself.....

1. It was a suggestion, hence the words "I suggest" being included. He got back what he gave in and is offended, clear hypocrisy.
2. That was not an insult, I said I had no problem with Wong himself just the insults he uses on someone who was cordial especially when it concerns such a trivial matter such as fictional universes fighting. If you think I insulted his insults, fine... go ahead.
3. Observations and conclusions as well as a quick jab at the macho-man routine coming from Mike.
4. Guilt? No, I just don't hide the truth... and if he had mistakenly taken a comment from me and presented it as something from trekkies then it would be in error. So I wished to correct that error if that was so, now it is clear that it was not my comment to which he referred.
5. I know there is a contradiction, that was my point... Mike/others say he doesn't have time to debate yet he has time to debate... clear contradiction. Hence the "uhuh".
6. I agree, Mike must think he needs to prove he is better than everyone because he feels some kind of threat due to an inferiority complex. And admitting the truth that he is a better debater than most as well as having a more well-versed background is being accepting, not any kind of complex. :p
7. Hardly sucking up, it is the truth... I think mike is a decent guy, and I also agree with his points in 'most' debates... only problem I have is his lack of tact. Why would I suck up, the chances of him seeing it are not likely, the chances he would take my "sucking up" as a good thing and it having a good reflecting nature on me is remote. In otherwords it would be pointless.... I was merely correcting some false assumptions made by people that I hate Mike or am biased because I disagree with his conclusions.
8. It is spelt with a C as was clearly indicated by the TYPED version of my name, and yes... hello.
9. Yes, I like to lure the puppies such as you into my waiting jaw... and by gum it worked. :)
10. Yes I know, it was the obvious retort for which he had set up and all ready wrote up in his mind before he put down the challenge. :p Why? Because there can never be a champion of SB, like saying which is the best artist.... opinion comes into play and it's a well accepted fact that everyone has an opinion. ;)
11. If you cannot understand something, ask and I'll simplify the meaning.
12. I've never called Wong a big meanie, just a hypocrite, generalize and childish. Which I also provided proof for.... al one needs to do is look for it.
Happy holidays
Mark Cosgrove (Dark Lord)

Good Lord! each one of these is a response to a one or two word comment. Glad I didn't write up anything more substantial. What a preten.....wait a sec...haven't I insulted you before?

9/17/00

You are in trouble. You are going to jail if you don't remove my info. You are a total moron.
Nice, the everything has been traced. I had to give them proof. Your site will be shut down. The police will be contanced. And investigator already spoke with me, I don't want you to get in any trouble over a prank.
Based on the contents of your post the only one who could be "booted" is yourself.
Good going, doorknob. Now there is a private investigator involved, you really are a smart one. I'll bet your mommy is gonna be mad.
What's he going to investigate? You already have my name, address and phone number.
Now unless you want to be fucked over, I suggest you remove all info about me, and a public apology should be posted as well. Any more phone calls from anyone will result in harrassment charges against you and the caller.
-Tim Ness (Cock Rocket, pantera789@aol.com)

This coming from someone with over 1000 UseNet post which can only be described as harassing; well maybe just stupid. You claim to have a hacked AOL account, threaten to hack people's computers, post slanderous, racist, sexist, and just plain offensive messages. Yet you threaten  me with legal action? What a crock. Remember, it was you who decided to post these in a public forum. I did not seek you out. Here's an apology:  I'm sorry you ever learned how to use a computer. -Ed

9/03/00

That was absolutely one of the funniest things I have ever read! I think I should institute martial law more often. :D j/k How bout you guys do one on BigBryan. :D He actually WANTS idiots like Dan Quayle in office....(thats plenty of good material right there)
- Vertigo1 (SuperModerator of Spacebattles)

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I wasn't aware Dan Quayle was trying to be elected as a SB Moderator. Is his screen name E1701?

9/02/00

This first letter was not sent to the Editor. However, it is a reader response that I felt should be included. The article in question may be found here.

Twits? Whoever wrote this obviously took the time to think about this reply. Pretentious? Have you looked at the page? That's what we stand for! hehe. The fact that you had to point that out shows a lot about you and the group. The board in disarray? How so? We have over a thousand members posting, with thousands of messages and every now and then we have a thread that causes trouble like that seemingly pathetic attempt of a thread (eclipse). Would that therefore mean disarray of a board? Hardly. One every so often out of hundreds of topics is very low indeed. Just to point out, the Eclipse thread is nothing we would call flaming, in fact... I didn't see one flame. Dictatorship? Hmm, obviously someone is in need of a lesson. The webpage is OWNED by Johan, the forums are a product of that page, whatever you post there is as a guest to the house of Johan. You go threatening people and swearing as a guest of someones home, you'll get a slap. In this case, the thread is closed or your message edited. It is common practice to give a fellow human being the respect he/she deserves. If that makes it a dictatorship then every country must be the same in your mind because in my country (England) I would shut anyone up who comes to my place and flames my friends as I'm sure anyone else would. You have your rights as do I but infringing others rights is not how the game is played. Then having the gaul to think yourself liberators by starting flames is the biggest bull i've heard for at least 2 days. Moderators have turned on each other? Hmm, ok. I guess that's why most of them got promoted to super-moderators, lol. So what if they did fight? I would rather have a bunch of different viewing people fighting over what's right and how things should be done than a bunch of 'yes' men any day of the week, Threats? Clearly you also have trouble understanding insults and the threat to insult. In that message you answered to, I see insults and facts. Where are the threats? If you mean the threat level then -5 is good because it means you're not a threat. Yet to see the militia do anything? Ah, so you want us to go get guns, take on the people we mention on the mission page, get drunk and get loads of girls naked? I'm all up for that but we got stuck on phase 1. ;) You want us to take you on, how so? Debate wise? Go to the forum for that or SB's forums if that's what you want, lol. Why do you think there's a Vs page even on the militia forums? We expected you'll see our little poke at your group and come on over to the forums. Painful defeat at what? You are under the deluded impression that the guy who wrote that was a trekkie, got news for ya bud... he's a bfiver/SAAB'er/Gater. How do I know this? Because he's me. :D Why did I therefore get into the Eclipse thread, because I also happen to be a 3d artist starting out and wanted to show what the page is MADE for. I also don't like the attitude of your group in how to deal with things. History is full of groups who make their own rules and I didn't like them then either. I have my own views on star trek vs star wars if you wish to hear em, i'm on ICQ (48557367) if you wish to go over them with me. I will block you though if your flaming etc. I've been warned? Really? lol! What you gonna do? Tell me trek sucks? I would agree on certain levels though. Tell me wars sucks? Well i'm a fan of wars but I also don't like what fans WANT it to be. Tell me b5 sucks? Well you could and I guess I would debate that but then we would be off topic of the actual point of the warning. Come to England? Well I did tell you, Englands a big place though and if you did find me then I guess you could try to beat me up but you may find i'm quite a good fighter. Theres a risk of that being true but I suppose you'd athave to fight me to find out. Any situation, i'd be ok.. so the warning isn't stricty true, is it?
- This babble of madness brought to you by Dark Lord (SB1FM)

As you indicated in the first two lines of your concise observations, in all future writings, it shall be understood that when people speak of SB1FM, they are inherently calling them "pretentious twits".

As the official leader of the anti-troll jihad I thought that it was best to clear up any confusion as to the goings on of the past month. Now, the Disciples of Wong who are at this very moment fighting the evil minions of SpaceBattles are reported in ASVS Headline News as being: "Dissatisfied with the progress of the jihad". I wish to state that the Disciples of Wong have neither consulted with or informed myself or any other official members of the anti-troll jihad with this news. So please note that the anti-troll jihad is not in any way associated with the Disciples of Wong and that any complaints about the   effectiveness of the jihad should be addressed loudly and abusively to Strowbridge. However, if you want to join, or have a potential target, talk to me. Now, off to fight Freemans Militia.
-WeeMadAndo, Grand Puhbah, Anti-Troll Jihad

Thank you for that clarification. We will correct the story as soon as your check clears.

8/08/00

Hi.... I read your Headline News article (i love your reporting BTW :-)... I read it often) about the Heavy TurboLaser article (sour grapes) and would just like to say that, like you, I also went through the entire battlescene, because I was getting tired of listening to some of the idiots on the SpaceBattles web board. Since ROTJ would be the movie to check for HTLs, I thought that I would, and when I found something, I made a video capture of it (which was a pain in the ass) to post on the SpaceBattles board (BTW, this is Cool Guy.... one of the Moderators over at SpaceBattles), and THEN to send to Young, Wong, and Saxton (I didn't just inform them, I showed them too). Here was the video capture:

http://members.xoom.com/stealthlabs/VSDebates/ROTJ.mpg

I did remember someone mentioning something about HTLs in ROTJ, but, I didn't know who said it, what they said, and where they said it, so, I just didn't bother with any of that and decided to go on a search for HTLs. After reading your article.... it was you that mentioned it (obviously :-)! Too bad I didn't know/remember that when I decided to check for HTLs.... it would have saved me quite a bit of time from searching!  I just thought that I should tell you, since, you were probably the first person to find that out (the HTLs in ROTJ), and just by luck, I decided to go on a crazy hunt for them to shut BigBryan and E1701 up.

William Lampi

Thank you for your letter, I have made a small announcement at the bottom of the page to indicate your work.

8/06/00

Dear Editor,
I am most pleased by the latest story. Sorry to hear of the beating - he really did you over, eh?
On the toilet discussions....well, you were in our heart all the while.
I noticed the response from the Great Wong.
Good lord, is that a picture of you?!
-Raven "Naahmah" Ford.

Well, the ape in the top story refers to my roommate and he did screw me over by getting my ISP cancelled; took me a week to get it back. I thank you for your concern and I know full well the left turns a thread can take. I had e-mailed Mike Wong the "interview" a week before it was posted. I was glad to know he enjoyed it.

December 25, 1976: I gotta admit I was thrilled to get the phaser. It came with a picture of a Klingon BoP that reflected light back to the phaser  setting off a sensor which made a cool noise. Three months later I was annoyed that it didn't really blow things up so I took it apart to see if I could "fix" it. Three months after that... screw the  phaser, I wanted a lightsaber!

8/02/00

Dear Editor,
Sorry I took so long to get back to you, but I just wanted to tell you that I thought that fake interview of yours was pretty funny.
-Mike Wong

 7/14/00

Dear Editor,
Spyda ought to be ashamed of himself. I had not yet found the dark glorious hole that is ASVS when TOWNMNBS was in his reign of terror and even I felt sick at the site of the topic header. I feel as though we should vote on whether or not to tie Sypda to a post in the town square and publicly humiliate him. Attach a sign around his neck that says something along the lines of "I like to pretend to be TOWNMNBS." Or at least something similar. Or if not something similar to that, something as embarrassing.
-Raven "Naahmah" Ford

I'm sure there will be a TGOD Thread with his name on it in the near future.

7/11/00

Dear Editor,
I was of course very happy to see the update, no matter how disturbing the topic was. Incestual marriages? Legal? Do those words even belong in the same paragraph let alone the same sentence? Are you sure that this was a serious post? And why is there a mention of dietary habits in a article about incestual marriages?
I would like to compliment you on the new format to ASVS HN. Even though it took more time, it does look nice. I do prefer the old design though.
Do you know that I can not find the word incestual in my dictionary or spell check?
-Raven "Naahmah" Ford

Sadly, yes, it was a real discussion. And good call; "incestual" is not a word. The correct term is incestuous. I was somewhat comforted that I had to look that up. The page will be corrected.

Ack. Now I can't view it at 640*480. Swine. Do you know how awkward that makes browsing while reading the news as well? You'll force me to use one monitor instead of two.
-Jonathan Boyd

Swine? 640x480?....lousy unwashed heathen....  Alright fine,  the framed layout is gone. Happy now?

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